"We are created by being destroyed." -F.W.
I can't even begin to say just how saddened I am by this. I loved Ahmet Ertegun.
I had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of years ago for the first time at the National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences' (NARAS) Grammy Awards, as they honored him as the first ever recipient of the 'Industry Icon Award,' as I wrote about last year.http://www.talkturkey.us/2006/02/getting_ready_f.htmlHe'll be missed. Did a lot for Turk cause in the US, if not the world.Allah rahmet eylesin.
BBC Worls Service had a good story on him last night. I can't find teh audio link but here's a BBC TV report:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stmil Bruce (aka Geert)
Armenian-holocaust denier Ahmet Etegun now burns in hell. Good riddance!
PontusAvenger, grow up, asshole.
A sad day, but a great life!!!!I guess some people simply cannot be civil, Armenians and Greeks spring to mind!!! Pontusavenger you are very similar to what Captain Kirk gets rid of.........Klingons around Uranus
"I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people whose history is ended, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, whose literature is unread, whose music is unheard, whose prayers are no longer uttered. Go ahead, destroy this race. Let us say that it is again 1915; there is war in the world. Destroy Armenia. See if you can do it. Send them from their homes into the desert. Let them have neither bread nor water. Burn their houses and their churches. See if they will not live again. See if they will not laugh again. See if you can stop them from mocking the big ideas of the world. You sons of bitches. Go ahead, try to destroy them." William Saroyan
If you have such hatred why do you bother coming to a Turkish blog..see a psychiatrist instead
"Denials of genocide make no sense unless one sees in them renewed opportunities for the same passions, meanings, and pleasures that were at work in the genocide itself, now revived in symbolic processes of murdering the dignity of the survivors, rationality, dignity, and even history itself'(emphasis in original). Indeed, denial may be thought of as the laststage of genocide, one that continues into the present. A kind of doublekilling takes place: first the physical deed, followed by the destruction of remembrance of the deed."--Israel Charny , Professor , Hebrew University, "The Psychology of Denial of Known Genocides," inCharny, ed., Genocide, 2:23.
You Turks don´t only invaded Anatolia, part of Greece and Cyprus killing thousands of Greeks and Armenians.. now you want the rest of Europe for your mongrelized subhuman type!!Why don´t you go back to central Asia and bury yourself in some lonely desert?I don´t think too many people will be sorry for you...
PontusAvenger said... Armenian-holocaust denier Ahmet Etegun now burns in hell. Good riddance! If a place such as hell exists, it is reserved for those who propagate myths and lies. Look in the mirror.
Agustinik said... "You Turks don´t only invaded Anatolia, part of Greece and Cyprus killing thousands of Greeks and Armenians.. now you want the rest of Europe for your mongrelized subhuman type!!Why don´t you go back to central Asia and bury yourself in some lonely desert?I don´t think too many people will be sorry for you..."I hope Turkey joins the EU, for no reason other than to quadruple the Turkish/Muslim population in Europe. When this happens, what we almost achieved in Vienna will finally be completed: Domination of Europe. With our wives and sisters and mothers having 4-6 children each, Ottoman Empire will be only a few decades away! Wa-wa- we-we!
Murat,I am guessing that you are 1/2 kidding, but that's exactly why Turkey will never be part of EU. Whether you are joking or not, it's a real fear. Put yourself in their shoes. If the Kurds in Turkey were having 20 kids each, wouldn't you be worried about the future of Turkey?I don't have any person knowledge of what's going on at the EU negotiations, but I think I can make an educated guess. Turkey didn't want to recognize Cypress this early in the game, just in case EU shots the door on Turkey completely and Turkey gets nothing out of it. So, instead Turkey agreed to eventually do whatever EU wants (as far as Cypress is concerned) as long as it's near the end of the talks, not this early. If the EU presented a document that said that if Turkey recongizes Cypress and in exchange Turkey is part of EU as of today, Turkey would sign it in a New York minute. What's my point? It's all political B.S. Give a little, take a little.But I can't image EU with Turkey as a member. Europeans are too smart to let that happen. Would US ever let Mexico become State #51? No way! We would all be speaking Spanish (and Spanish only, none of that Spanish As A Second Language crap) within 15 years.If you agree that US would never bring in Mexico, how can you ever think that EU will allow Turkey in. The Turks are Europe's Mexicans - like it or not.
Ahmet Ertegun was not a denier of the Armenian Genocide. According to Harut Sassounian, Mr. Ertegun acknowledged it to him and believed that acknowledgment was in Turkey's best interest.
sean,united states is not a united states of the americas. it's the united states of america. your argument about Mexico is almost as good as comparing apples to guavas.as for the turks being the 'mexicans' of europe, i don't think the mexicans would appreciate your insultive use of such a 'racist' remark.taken in context, however, you are right about turkey's ability to send the 'undesirables,' or the 'undocumented' workers (even though they are documented,) to europe did not leave a good taste in the european's mouth.possibly with the extension of the EU into Turkey, the citizens of Turkey would remain in Turkey, and not as feared by the Europeans where a mass exodus would take place.my argument, however, in my opoosition to Turkey's entrance to the EU is somewhat different.I believe while Turkey is deserving of Europe, the 'EU' is not deserving of Turkey. In other words, I think the EU should pass a litmus test before Turkey should even consider joining such a 'dying' or 'sick' entity.Instead, Turkey will remain a 'leader' to be reckoned with in that strategic area of the world, without having its hands tied by the EU (which is doomed to break up sooner or later anyway.)good day!
bolsa:would you be able to appreciate the contributions to the music world of such a man even if he were a 'denier.'my guess is a no. but i may be wrong.people like you seem to have a litmus test of genocide as a barrier to dismiss the person as a whole in their societal entirety without any regard for humanity in general.
metin said... "I believe while Turkey is deserving of Europe, the 'EU' is not deserving of Turkey. In other words, I think the EU should pass a litmus test before Turkey should even consider joining such a 'dying' or 'sick' entity."you made me laugh. Turkey has been fighting, begging, praying, etc. to get into EU for 50 years, and now you are saying that they just TOO GOOD for EU?Only a Turk would say that. You know what? You are right. So you should convince your government to stop trying. Nothing would make me happier.
even though I know what your reaction will be to this article, I think that you should all read it:http://www.armenews.com/article.php3?id_article=27734
Metin,First, I don't appreciate your stereotyping me.Now, to answer your question. I could appreciate Mr. Ertegun's contribution to music even if he was a genocide denier. I wonder if you can do the same vis a vis System of a Down, for example? Does the word HYPROCRIT come to mind just now?
Gamze, Couple of weeks ago I didn't know what you look like, so I assumed you were a teenage boy, just making senseless remarks every chance you got. That's why I told you to go play video games. Now that I have seen your picture, I am surprised. You look like a mature lady. Why can't you handle mature conversations? One of my postings was in response to Murat's comment. the other is about Ahmet Ertegun. Go read the article that I referred to before you complain.Which one of these comments do you not like? Which one of us is a "freak"?I think I know where you are coming from. Your point is that no matter the topic being discussed, Armenians will bring the Genocide into it. Well, you are right. But maybe that should show to you how important it is to us. If you ever watch the movie "Ararat" (which I am sure you won't, other Turks might, but you won't), you will see that director Atom Egoyan addresses this exact point. In the movie, the father of one of the characters has died under questionable circumstances (this has nothing to do with the Genocide.) It's not clear if he was killed by his girlfriend or if he committed suicide. The dead man's daughter brings up this point every chance she gets. No matter what, that's all she wants to talk about. She even goes to a speech that his father's girlfriend is giving and interrupts her with a question about her father's death.I get it. I got the point then and I get it now. But you know what? The Armenian Genocide is a hot topic right now with everything going on with Turkey & EU, with the law in France, with the US Congress and the law they will most likely pass in 2007, etc.Like it or not, it's on our mind every day. Even if all of the above wasn't happening, it would still be on our mind every day, but now we want to discuss it even more.If your sister (and I don't know if you have one or not) was raped and killed by someone, wouldn't you talk about it more every year around the anniversary time? What about if the trial was taking place? Isn't that all you would think about? What if the person got away with it? Wouldn't you chase him down and harm him, or, at the very least, harrass him for what he did.Welcome to our world. Now you know how we feel.(Murat, please don't delete these comments, even if you don't agree with them. It takes me a long time to type them up. You are throwing away important points.)
sean: i am an american and my government, unfortunately, is the one in washington, d.c. i doubt very much of they could do anything about who can or cannot join the EU. There's a process and its applicants must go through the process according to what MY government tells me.bolsa: you stereotyped yourself enough in the past!and i hate the system of a down because of their music style not because of their political stance.there are definitely plenty of artists whose political views i dont agree with but still enjoy their music however.and by the way, armenian genocide is not on the top of my list as one of those issues i feel passionately for or against.there are plenty here in the US and around the world today that is more of a concern to me.
You don't have to appreciate the art in order to appreciate someone's contribution to the art.The bottom line is that you are a massive hypocrit. First, you stereotype people without basis. Second, you slander us by saying that we are too one-dimensional to appreciate a contribution by genocide deniers, all the while doing the exact same thing yourself. And then you go around other blogs inciting Turks to start rock bands that counter the music of SOAD on the issue of the Genocide, while coming here and saying that the Genocide issue is not important to you.BTW, do you like Sylvestor Stallone's work? Guess what he's up to next? You better get to work on your anti-Stallone blogs!
"(Murat, please don't delete these comments, even if you don't agree with them. It takes me a long time to type them up. You are throwing away important points.)"Well, Sean, it took a long time for a merry band of revolutionaries to rise from the ashes of the Ottoman empire and establish what is today the WORLD'S 17th largest economy. Every event, every milestone, in history has led to this point in time with me leaving a comment on Amerikan Turk. I've come too far and achieved far too many things to let professional mourners like you take that away from me and my parents. Plus, in response to your little analogy, remember that even the most grief stricken widow, mother, son, whatever, moves on from the death of a family member.
bolsa: i already posted about Stallone and his washed up self of a 60 year old boxer returning to the ring in order to keep his career going. a career that has been in intensive care for many years. and oh yeah, he would like to be the armenian savior in 'his' new project.why wont the armenians have a star of their own to portray them. i wouldve thought with all the money the american armenians have they could have at least afforded to save someone else's career, someone with a lot more credibility than an aging rambo.genocide issue is important but i know a thousand other issues that affect my life as an american. you, on the other hand, continue to live in the past, and have visions of grandeur when one day the whole world will appreciate the great armenian contributions to society.iraq, al qaeda, terror, israel, palestine, iran, presidential elections of 2008, the new UN chief, the two missing mountaineers, miss usa's drinking binge, the new apprentice in los angeles, the upcoming grammy awards, second life, interactive marketing, the overpaid stars of the yankees, abortion rights, religious right, fundamentalist preachers, castro's health, katrina's aftermath, el nino, my future ex-wife, the cia, dow jones, federal reserve rates, dick cheney's heart, these are all issues that concern me not necessarily in that order.i hope your extended research of stalking turks in the us extend into how we think and who we are when it comes to what we do as americans to tackle the global warming issues, the new world order, freedoms and civil liberties, the US constitution, and betting on the upcoming super bowl, as well as what we're going to do about cancer, aids, and people eating rats in rwanda.maybe you should start your own blog and comment on what's really important to you and how you really feel. stop being a democrat and a liberal by criticizing what others do, start accepting accountability and responsibility for your own actions, and try to convince the entire world to support whatever cause it is you're trying to yell and screan about. or go hug a tree.
well i for one am fed up with armenians and greeks and all the other losers who betrayed the country they lived in and now want sympathy..go to hell where you belong and maybe when you grow up and can see past your asshole come back and have a civilized conversation about things ..in the meantime crawl back under whatever piece of crap you crawled out from under ....the world would be a better place without you given your comments about someone like ertegun who brought so much positive to the world...freaks
well said gulay!Mr. Ertegun was a major force in the music world and the African-American scene in the US. He deserves to be remembered as who he was and what he meant to a lot of people, not necessarily just the Turks.
Metin, it appears your soap box is not big enough to support your massive ego. When you come down from it . . . hopefully, for your own sake, some day you will develop the humility to consider what you have done during your lifetime. You preach and you criticize the accomplishments of others. But what have you done.Having gotten a bitter taste of the breadth of your hypocrisy over the last couple of months, I'm sure that just a few months ago, before this news about Stallone came out, you were singing his praises. But now, since Stallone too appears to comprehend the nature and magnitude of what really happened to the Armenians, you of course think he's a loser. I fear that soon the whole world, save for a few "enlightened Turks such as yourself, is going to be full of nothing but losers who acknowledge the Genocide.Keep us posted on that new anti-SOAD band you're putting together. Maybe if Mr. Ertegun was still alive, he might have signed them. On the other hand, he, like most decent and informed people, acknowledged the Armenian Genocide, so he probably would not have approved of the message.
Gulay, if seeking equal rights with Muslims is considered betraying your country, then I suppose our ancestors were guilty.You sound like the type of person who if you were alive during 1915, would have been one of the first ones to stab an Armenian child to death.That's about all I can stomach saying to a slime ball who obviously hasn't evolved to the level of a human being yet.
Oguz wrote:"Plus, in response to your little analogy, remember that even the most grief stricken widow, mother, son, whatever, moves on from the death of a family member."Yes, after the perpetrator has been punished or at least repents. But not before.Everything else you wrote sounds awefully defensive. Why, if you have no guilty conscience, would the Armenian Genocide take anything away from your accomplishments? What has this to do with you? Nothing, except that your denial puts you in the same camp as the perpetrators and consequently you feel you have to justify your accomplishments and distance yourself from this history.
bolsa: if you did a little research before you put your foot in your mouth, you would have noticed my distaste for stallone goes back many years to when i first met him and his ego. back to when i didnt even know of his intentions to play an armenian victim. but then again, you are too busy trying to tie everything into genocidal proportions. have you nothing better to do than to ride the coattails of the people you criticize? or are you some sort of a stalker of turkish ingenuity? how long will you look for handouts from those who sympathise with your victimization of yourself? stop your victimization caricaturization and start joining the due process of which we are all members of.only then, your healing and therapy will begin. maybe you might even produce something of mention of your own that we can all be proud of collectively instead of having nothing further to contribute than a critique of what others have accomplished, ego or not.
" Everything else you wrote sounds awefully defensive. Why, if you have no guilty conscience, would the Armenian Genocide take anything away from your accomplishments? What has this to do with you? "Exactly! Go and whine DIRECTLY to the people you think committed these acts of genocide, and DO NOT bother me when I'm here to read about Ahmet Ertegun.
Still on the soapbox I see!
Uyuz, someone pointed out that Ertegun was a Genocide denier, and I pointed out that he wasn't. That's what you call whining?
Answering the question "What are the next steps of Armenia and the Diaspora after Turkey's recognition of the Armenian Genocide?" Harut Sassounian mentioned that in this case the Armenians will demand that the issue of financial compensation, return of lands and the issue of territories should be resolved. "If this day comes, I'm sure it will come, we shouldn't think that the Turks yield to us recognizing the Genocide, but it isn't a concession, but reality."PontusAvenger,Agustinik,and Sean check your mail, Ive sent all of you ignorant cowardly little monkeys a check for $1.
PontusAvenger said... "I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people whose history is ended, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, whose literature is unread, whose music is unheard, whose prayers are no longer uttered. Go ahead, destroy this race. Let us say that it is again 1915; there is war in the world. Destroy Armenia. See if you can do it. Send them from their homes into the desert. Let them have neither bread nor water. Burn their houses and their churches. See if they will not live again. See if they will not laugh again. See if you can stop them from mocking the big ideas of the world. You sons of bitches. Go ahead, try to destroy them." William Saroyan A drunken wife beater who wrote one AMAZING play. He like most Armenian's has a knack for fiction.
I know it's not as impressive as starting a blog, but Saroyan also won a Pullitzer Prize.
Gamze, Once again, your points are baseless, insulting and ignorant. Yes, we do demand land and money. But first and foremost, we demand an apology. Recognition is step 1. What did the US do for the Japanese-Americans that were put in camps during World War II? Apology and compensation. What did the Germans do to the Jews? Apology and compensation. What did US do to Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11? Kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Would you prefer that Armenians do that, instead of asking for an apology, their money and their land back?"We" didn't start any civil war. The Empire was crumbling because Turks had been treating everyone like 2nd class citizens. And everyone stills remembers. Look at the Kurds, the Greeks, the Lebanese, etc. Even Arabs in the area hate the Turks because of the way they were treated during the Ottoman Empire. Gamze said: "At the very least, you not denying any of this."I love it. You make accusations and right after it proof that you are right by claiming that we are not denying any of it.I could easily make accusations about you and follow it up with the same claim. However, I don't want to lower myself to your level.I am trying to keep these discussions clean in order to bring up the conversation to a mature level. I hope that sooner or later you will bring yourself to the same level.
Holy shucking fit! You guys are at eachother's throats again. I'm so effing tired I can't even participate in the insult-a-thon, as tempting as it is. Just know that I read every comment and mumble something incoherently under my breath every time.. Here's one which stood out though:Sean: "If your sister (and I don't know if you have one or not) was raped and killed by someone, wouldn't you talk about it more every year around the anniversary time? What about if the trial was taking place? Isn't that all you would think about? What if the person got away with it? Wouldn't you chase him down and harm him, or, at the very least, harrass him for what he did."Sean, my answer is all YESSES (sp?)However, the person or persons in question would have to be living. Alive. I wouldn't be indiscriminately harrassing the collective population of descendants of the accused, who have zero culpability in such matters. How much guilt does the typical white American have because of slavery? or the annihilation of Native Americans?Sean, if your sister was raped or killed, my condolences, but there's no fucking way that you are 100 years old.. and neither am I. It's like you want to perpetuate a g-d damn blood feud or something.Here's a blast from the past you can sink your teeth into:http://aramanoogian.blogspot.com/2006/04/our-turkish-readers-want-to-debate.html
Murat,I understand your point. However, I see that you don't completely understand ours. We (most of us) are not mad at your generation of Turks for what happened in 1915. We are mad at you for what you are doing now: denying that 1915 happened. Look at the postings on this and other Turkish blogs. Turks keep insulting Greeks, Armenian, Kurds. Call them names. I have seen over and over again comments like "I wish my grandpa had succeded. Then you wouldn't be here right now."Am I supposed to love the Turk who says that? I know those are just words and the one who says it is probably responding to something bad that a Greek or Armenian wrote about Turks. But still... It's the entire denial generation. That's who we hate. When Mel Gibson said a few bad things about Jews, every Jews started hating him. They don't hate him for what the Germans did, but for what Gibson said.Would you ever ask a Jew why they hate a Holocaust denier? Even if that denier is another Jew, don't you think all (or most) Jews would hate him/her? Why? It's not like that denier did the killing.
Gamze,I am not sure which comment you are refering to. If you are refering to the one left by "truthiness", that was NOT me.I am keeping it clean... for now. But it's getting hard. Specially when I read your comments.
sean, you are a disgrace to our people. merry xmas to you and may god bless you with a little humanity.
Kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Would you prefer that Armenians do that, instead of asking for an apology, their money and their land back?YES!YES!YES!Please I beg all Armenians to do just that. Suicide is an option sean.
When Mel Gibson said a few bad things about Jews, every Jews started hating him. They don't hate him for what the Germans did, but for what Gibson said.What did he say?
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