America's #1 Balance Bike Destination

America's #1 Balance Bike Destination
America's #1 Balance Bike Destination

18 April 2007

Turkish bible firm attack kills 3

DIYARBAKIR, Turkey (Reuters) -- Attackers on Wednesday slit the throats of three people in a Turkish publishing house which printed bibles, security officials said, the latest attack on minorities in mainly Muslim Turkey.

59 comments:

Anonymous said...

Although I have no idea what could be done, I hope the Turkish government can do something to control the Islamic nationalist fanatics. The Christian minority in Turkey is under siege.

the Husband said...

hmm wonder whether there will be 500,000 plus at the funeral with everyone carrying "we are all Christian" posters.........guess not as the rising tide of intolerance and religious bigotry which is gaining tacit approval from the likes of Erdogan is likely to mean that anyone who objects will be hauled up and accused of insulting Turkishness.......as far as I remember apostasy is not a crime in Turkey so if these people were as the report claims undertaking "missionary" work then one has to question just how committed a lot of people in Turkey are to a modern secular state where all religions have freedom......sounds like the Ottoman Empire actually

Anonymous said...

Christian" posters.........guess not as the rising tide of intolerance and religious bigotry which is gaining tacit approval from the likes of Erdogan

To take the criminal acts of two idiots and equate that with the entire population of Turkey is just an ignorant statement to make.

Insulting Turkishness, what does that mean exactly?
Those two words are used way too much on this blog as an explanation for everything.

This is not a religious war, don't define it as such.

Again........

guess not as the rising tide of intolerance and religious bigotry which is gaining tacit approval from the likes of Erdogan is likely to mean that anyone who objects will be hauled up and accused of insulting Turkishness.

Do not be so simple minded.

Gulay said...

why is that an ignorant statement to make. The ultra Nationalists are setting the agenda in Turkey (Thanks to 301, hence the comment re insulting Turkishness) and the oxygen they are given to suppress anything that might be labeled free speech. Both myself and my wife who is Turkish have noticed the increasing degree of intolerance shown in Turkey towards others be it religious or ethnic as well as the rise in religious feeling that has been spawned as a result of Erdogans attempts (generally failed)to introduce elements of Islamic law to the secular. As these people were Christians and presumably killed by Muslims I fail to see how this can be anything other than religious. Oh and have the courage to give your name rather than hide in anonynimity

Anonymous said...

This is a provocation. They want to create further hatred, so there can be a reason to go to a war with Turkey. Continuation of the 'great middle east project'.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
This is a provocation. They want to create further hatred, so there can be a reason to go to a war with Turkey. Continuation of the 'great middle east project'."

So who can go to war??? This was an act of intolerent religious fanatical Moslems, pure and simple.

It was act of war, but against Christains. Moslems wonder why the majority of the non-Moslem world is fearful of and distrust them. It is inhuman, cowardly acts of the few like this that breeds this mistrust. The remainder of the Moslem world needs to take action themselves against hatemongering Imams who spout their diatribe of shit!

I am not a Moslem but have taken to the time to read much of the Koran (I believe that understanding is the key to peace). The Koran doesn't say to kill Christains or any other group because they are "non-believers".

Islam is a religion that preaches peace and acceptence....it's just a bunch of idiots who twist and perevet it to their own agendas.

Stop sporting these idiots and police them yourselves. Maybe then, we can achieve something resembling peace. I know many Moslems and the ones I know are wonderful, warm hearted people.

metin said...

"To take the criminal acts of two idiots and equate that with the entire population of Turkey is just an ignorant statement to make."

I agree completely!!!

The same can be applied to the idiot South Korean-American student who killed 30 plus people here in the U.S. It wasn't an Asian vs American event, or one that would place South Koreans as the victimizers.

As blog commenters, or 'blogmentors,' maybe we should take ourselves seriously and be responsible and mature in our comments for all to see, without rushing to judgment.

And since some of us also comment on subject matter irrelevant to the post, how do you all feel this morning now that 'Sanjaya' has been voted off American Idol??

Sean said...

This is a very interesting discussion. In the clip of Hrant Dink, (that's used in the movie "Screamers" and available on youtube) he says something like "when you talk to today's Turks, they say that Genocide didn't happen because they are nice people and they know that THEY wouldn't have done it, so it means that THEIR grandparents couldn't have done it."

Here is my question to all of you: do you think these "ultra Nationalists" could have and would have done it? Look at the way they are acting now, with the eyes of the world and all the spotlights pointing at Turkey. They are still murdering in cold blood, without and remorse.

Would THEY have committed the Genocide, specially when no one was watching?

IF the Turkish government or the military TODAY gave the green light to kill all non-Turks or non-Muslims, don't you think THESE ultra Nationalists would run to the streets and start killing immediately? They already have lists of who is who in their neighborhoods and around the country. That's the reason why most Turks who don't agree with them stay silent.

This, my friends, if why WE bring up the past over and over again. We are not trying to destroy Turkey, as some Turks suggest, including Murat in his Open Radio interview, but we are trying to prevent incidents like this.

Today's Turkey is on the brink of a major change. Very soon there will be a clash between the ultra Nationalists and the Modern Turks.

I see 2 likely outcomes: either 1) the Modern Turks will win and send these racists back to the mountains they came from, recognize the past and join EU or 2) the ultra Nationalists will win and send Turkey back 100 years, turn it into another Iraq or Iran, kissing good bye to EU for good.

This is a serious concern, for Turkey and it's neighbors.

Sean said...

You know what's amazing about the Turkish government? The fact that they can solve crimes in a matter of hours, sometimes minutes.

They have already arrested 10 people for the bible firm attack!! That's a world record!

The same thing happened when Hrant Dink was killed.

I think the FBI, NYPD, CIA, LAPD, etc. should get trained in Turkey. We have unsolved crimes going back 50 years.

http://washingtontimes.com/world/20070419-014632-7356r.htm

Anonymous said...

Muslims do not wonder why the majority of the non muslim world is fearful of and distrust them. They have no time to wonder about that. Because most of the Muslims live under the occupation of non Muslims. They are too busy to stay alive and to be free or to retain their freedom. 700000 Iraqis murdered because of the US invation; most directly by US and UK forces some with their timeless divide and rule tactic. It is decided that it is time for Turkey to be divided and ruled by the West.
You all sit here talk about poor poor Christians under attack in Muslim countries. What a lot of rubbish!
By the way no religion is made to bring peace on earth. They are all the same just to divide us and great excuse to kill each others.

Metin said...

Sean:

You make it sound as if the ultra-nationalists or those who are masquerading as 'secular' saviors, and the government (or the 'islamic' tendency cover-uppers but spare no expense to be politically correct no gooders) are the one and the same.

Will the real 'modern' Turks and 'modern' Turkey please reveal yourselves?

Sean said...

Metin,

I was not suggesting that at all. In fact, I asked you a question on this very topic on your blog, trying to figure out the differences.

who are the modern Turks? I would say that you are one of them, based on your comments. Murat is also, on a good day, when he is not worried about the Turkish government listening to his every comment. I was disappointed by Murat's unwillingness to speak freely at the Open Radio program. (I know, this was a while ago, but I heard it for the first time yesterday!) I felt that he was holding back, worried about how he would be treated during his next visit to Turkey.

Murat, Metin and other Turks living in the US & Europe, do you still have relatives in Turkey?

If so, do you ever worry if their safety may be compromised based on what you say in US or Europe?

Metin said...

Sean:

I do have relatives living in Turkey. And I am not an admirer of Turkey's Article 301 and other 'taboos' in the closet.

Unfortunately, Turkey is not the U.S. But neither are many countries in the World (even within the EU.)

I am an American and I like to call it as I see it. I am, however, worried that our 'civil liberties' are being taken away from us even right here in the U.S. on a daily basis for the sake of 'homeland security' and the 'war' on 'terror.'

Hence, we need to look up the definition of a Republic, which the US is, where individual rights are not compromised at the expense of the majority (like in a Democracy.)

Turkey is confused between a US wants to bring 'democracy' to the region, when democracy oppresses the rights of the minorities, but allows you to speak and protest freely about it.

I too was disappointed by the Open Source program period. But not for Murat's contributions or holding back, but for other reasons, including the professor using profanities, etc. And the lack of 'intelligent' research by the host and his producers in a rush to put out a program of controversy, without regard to the matter at hand at the time.

I think it's not only the minorities (as perceived as Kurds or others) who are mistreated in Turkey. It is the Turks themselves, including the 'religious' minorities (and I include Muslims who can't send their daughters to universities due to the politicized headscarf issue, etc.)

Although I feel that Turkey should not beg to enter the EU (rather it should be the other way around,) I do feel that the 'reforms' necessitated by the road to the EU, as well as the current government's 'politically correct' way of enacting and digesting the reforms should be commended.

Especially given the fact it is nearly impossible to bring about 'real' change in Turkey quickly.

the Husband said...

Sean,

I too have family in Turkey and may even possibly end up working there. Am I worried about reprisals for what I post, not really ts one reason that I publish as the Husband but in reality its not too difficult to discover my real identity....Gulay and myself are not big fans of 301, nor of the ultra nationalists setting the agenda as you may have noticed but being scared of repercussions is tantamount to self censorship and that I personally feel is just plain wrong. If anything we have more to fear from the Fener....I mean Kadikoy mobs supporters!!!

Metin, you forgot the Alevis who at 20 million and Muslim in persuasion are also discriminated against....

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
Muslims do not wonder why the majority of the non muslim world is fearful of and distrust them. They have no time to wonder about that. Because most of the Muslims live under the occupation of non Muslims. They are too busy to stay alive and to be free or to retain their freedom. 700000 Iraqis murdered because of the US invation; most directly by US and UK forces some with their timeless divide and rule tactic."

That's pure bullshit! The majority are not living under non-Moslems. Alos the majority of Moslem deaths in Iraq are at the hands of other Moslems. get a clue and your facts straigt!

"By the way no religion is made to bring peace on earth. They are all the same just to divide us and great excuse to kill each others."

Again, you have no idea what you are saying. It's the rantings of lunatic religious leaders of all faiths that distort the true meaning....

Anonymous said...

'That's pure bullshit! The majority are not living under non-Moslems. Alos the majority of Moslem deaths in Iraq are at the hands of other Moslems. get a clue and your facts straigt!'
Divide and rule...Does not matter who kills who. But who divides who and causes the killing.

Anonymous said...

Check out www.thereligionofpeace.com for daily, weekly, monthly and yearly body counts at the hands of muslims. It is not an isolated act as someone here mentioned. Not that all muslims are violent, but a lot of them are. And I'm supposed to give it all a pass as isolated events? How many people did extremist Christians or extremist Hindus kill last week? Come on, the numbers speak.

Anonymous said...

These are provocations to enable West to go and kill further Muslis and attack Islamic countries. You are one of those provocators. People who believe you are either ignorant or simple Muslim bashing evil type. At the end of the day the truth is out there, anyone Muslim / Christian / whatever with conscious will not fall into these provocations.

mc2 said...

The Pot Calling The Kettle Black ...

Check out world history, and you will discover that more people died in the hands of christians than any other religeon in the world. Look at all the wars thru out history that were started by christian minds. Do I have to remind of the inhumane treatment endured by African-Americans in the hands of god fearing Christian hands. How about Hiroshima, Vietnam, Iraq and the embargo against Cuba.

Not that all christians are violent, but a lot of them are. And I'm supposed to give it all a pass as isolated events?

How many wars werestarted by christians?

How many weopans of mass distruction were designed and used by Muslims and haow many by christians?

How many times has a Muslim knocked on your door on a sunday afternoon trying to convert you to Islam.

Anonymous said...

The difference is that Christians (I am not one) knock on your door and talk to you. Muslims blow you up or shoot you. That's the measure of their conversion. "Believe it or else".

As far as history goes, you're way out of bounds. First of all, we all now have the benefit of history to see what damage religion can do, examples being muslim conquest 600-1000, Christian crusades after that and so on. Christianity has taken a back seat in the Western World and has become more a generic 'western' civilization. Religion plays a secondary, perhaps tertiary role for much of the western world.

The same cannot be said of Islam. The lessons of the past have not been seen the same by their lot. Their resolve to universalize and cling to religion has only grown stronger.

Nukes were not created in the name of religion. They were created to win a war against a country that had attacked us.

Islam needs to clean up its own house. America cleaned up its own house in 1776 when it expelled its own foreign oppressors. It's time the muslims do the same and stop wasting their energies blaming everyone else.

Anonymous said...

First,
'The difference is that Christians (I am not one) knock on your door 'and talk to you. Muslims blow you up or shoot you. That's the measure of their conversion. "Believe it or else".'
Rubbish. You are obviously incredibly biased. That's what you want to believe.... They also want you to believe in this rubbish. You just obey to the system and its rubbish media. To question things require intelligence...

Second,
'As far as history goes, you're way out of bounds. First of all, we all now have the benefit of history to see what damage religion can do, examples being muslim conquest 600-1000, Christian crusades after that and so on. Christianity has taken a back seat in the Western World and has become more a generic 'western' civilization. Religion plays a secondary, perhaps tertiary role for much of the western world.'
More rubbish, Christianity uses other religions to provoke within to create wars....

More and more rubbish;

'Nukes were not created in the name of religion. They were created to win a war against a country that had attacked us.'
Nukes created to exercise power, gain resources. What do you do is stir up whatever the religion or ethnicity around the region with goodies start up a war and then threaten everyone with the nukes.

'Islam needs to clean up its own house.'
Wow! Islam is not a country not an institution. It is a complex worldwide belief system. It has not got segretive power structure like Christianity. This is the biggest spin in the world. Muslims are just simply evil. Well, hilly billies like yourself buy that...
By the way who sponsors Al-Quaida anyway? And Hizbullah, etc?

'America cleaned up its own house in 1776 when it expelled its own foreign oppressors.'

You mean US, America is a continent did you know that? And that of US does not know the meaning of the word clean. Their beginnings based on complete filth, death, destruction of native Americans. And that's what I call holocaust.

mc2 said...

By the way who sponsors Al-Quaida anyway? And Hizbullah, etc?

America has created these terrorist with its politics and the fabrication of the state of Israel. I'm sorry that you can't see that.

Hating Muslims is another christian witch hunt. Why is it that christian groups always are in the need of an enemy. Why is it that your incapable of respecting other peoples ideologies and cultures, and are so willing to enforce your own beliefs. First it was the comunist now Muslims.

Let me remind you that the atomic bomb was dropped two days after Japan put up its white flag. Why?

To take the actions of a tiny fraction of Muslims and suggest that it is reflection of all Muslims is just ignorant.

History has taught you nothing and will continue making a hypocrite of those who beleive it holds any value.

Anonymous said...

Very well said mc2. Totally agree. When I ask the question who sponsors Al-Q, Hizb, etc I actually wasn't asking, but telling that US sponsors them, I agree %100 of everything you say.

Anonymous said...

Fascist America in 10 easy steps.

http://alternet.org/waroniraq/51150/

Anonymous said...

Some things are what they are. Muslims have no institution? What about the theocratic governments across the middle east such as Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia? I suppose these are models of great governments. Oh, yeah, that's right. It's the US's fault that they exist. I'm sorry, I forgot my "blame America for every problem" mantra that you people spout.

Your religion conquered hordes of innocent people over the years, not unlike Westerners' conquering of the American Indians. "Believe it or else" is Mohammed's way. I'm not saying the US has some angel's halo over its head, but it's time muslims stop speaking as if they are peaceful and non-violent in the 'holier-than-thou' religious tone.

Some things are what they are. Calling me a 'hill billy' or dismissing substantiated statements as 'rubbish' reveals this simplicity and your desire to deny the evil forces of Islam in the world today.

From what I can tell, the muslim world on the whole takes little if no responsibility for its actions or its problems. It's always someone else's fault.

Your facts on WWII are completely falsified too. A little too much Al Jazeera perhaps? I guess that Kool Aid would make you believe things like "America is responsible for creating Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc."

Please.

az said...

How funny you are.

Anonymous said...

'Some things are what they are. Muslims have no institution? What about the theocratic governments across the middle east such as Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia?'
They are theocratic goverments as you said it. Meaning that the God is the boss, they are not institution as a Westerner understand. Institutionalise everything and make profit out of it is a Western practice. And no, they are not models of great governments. But it the US's fault that they keep on existing.
You should be sorry, that you forgot my "blame America for every problem". Never forget. It is the ordinary dummy US citisens and their instutitions responsibility
not to disrupt the world peace. Not to be agressive.

"Believe it or else" is Mohammed's way. I'm not saying the US has some angel's halo over its head, but it's time muslims stop speaking as if they are peaceful and non-violent in the 'holier-than-thou' religious tone.

That is not Mohammed's way. It's G.W Bush's way. Do you except and take responsibility?

'Some things are what they are. Calling me a 'hill billy' or dismissing substantiated statements as 'rubbish' reveals this simplicity and your desire to deny the evil forces of Islam in the world today.'
I don't know who you are, you are anonymous as far as I'm concern. So don't take it personally.
Ther are no evil forces in this world. Ofcourse it will be good excuse for certain greedy quartes to attack group of people and countries if theer is an evil force. Than you create AlQ,etc. By the way they don't tell these in Al-Jazira.

'It's always someone else's fault.'
Remember it is US government to blame. Hilly billies are simple sheep. They are not evil but ignorant like yourself.

Anonymous said...

I am anonymous to protect myself. These things need to be said, but I would rather die of 'natural' causes and not have to hire bodyguards to get there. Those who speak the truth about Islam often end up in that position. The Van Gogh gentleman in Holland got a bullet through his head for mere words against Islam. Go figure.

Go back and read your history books. Muhammed lived by the sword. Violence from the beginning. The ends justify the means.

The US buys oil from the middle east. What the crooked governments do with it is their business. Always the victim. We are businessmen, borne out of something called the 'Enlightenment' and 'Reformation'. Ever read that in your muslim history books? It's how Westerners grew tired of religious fanaticism back in the middle ages and got on with life on earth.

Your muslim brethren should read up on it. It teaches a lot. It's quite clear the muslim world is still stuck in the dark ages. Too bad for the rest of us who have to live with the suicide bombers and 'martyrs'.

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, check this out:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/29/iranian.haricuts.reut/index.html

Seems the Iranian government tells its people how to cut their hair. I guess that's Bush's fault too.

Anonymous said...

Yeah yeah.... Stir it up. More and more spin.. Evil Muslims, lovely civilized Christians blah blah..So scared to give your name you sad paranoid little rabbit. No one cares who you are and what you think anyway...

az said...

You are ridiculous.
Protect yourself from what? Your bloody own ignorance!

mc2 said...

Loving Your Neighbour? – Killing Your Opponents!

Christians get a lot of mileage out of the aphorism of 'turning the other cheek', a sentiment originating at least as early as Pythagoras in the fifth century BC. Yet both in theory and in practice, Christians have honoured the principle of murdering their opponents. The word, it seems, came from the very top. Apparently Jesus himself said:


"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
– Luke 19.27 *

The Christian Heaven may have been a vain folly but the Christian Hell was real enough. For more than a thousand years sadists in the uniform of Christ terrorised and brutalised a continent and then exported that terror to the four corners of the globe.

The Church, which, with a satanic twist of humour, claimed to be the instrument of 'Christ's loving kindness' , taught a brutalised and impoverished people new meanings to the words pain and suffering...

Anonymous said...

gamze = az

Anonymous said...

anonymous = sean

Sean said...

anonymous #2 = murat

Murat Altinbasak said...

Sean, The only reason I'm commenting now is that you have used my name in a derogatory way, and I happened to notice from the "Recent comments" sidebar. NEVER have I commented anonymously on my own blog, or anyone else's blog. Shame on you for suggesting it.

Sean said...

Murat, which part of "anonymous #2 = murat" is derogatory??? Who needs to calm down now?

I admit, I posted as anonymous "gamze = az". I did that, knowing that Murat will know I was the one posting, based on my IP address. I ASSUMED Murat posted the response, since he is the only one who would have access to the IP addresses. If it wasn't Murat, then I was wrong, but there is nothing derogatory in what I said.

I still stand by my original comment.

Murat Altinbasak said...

If you think I have time to look at IP addresses and try to figure out who's who, you're wrong.
Also, my Sitemeter is OPEN for all to see the IP addresses.
If you stand by your original comment, and insist that I ever posted anonymously, you are being derogatory, because you are calling me a liar. I've never posted anonymously, ever. If you choose not to believe me, that's fine.
Am I all F-ed up here? or is there another Murat who you are referring to?

Sean said...

Murat, you misunderstood what I said. I stand by my original comment that "gamze = az". I am not calling you a liar.

I didn't know your Sitemeter is open.

Gulay said...

As usual this descends into the Muslims are evil or Christians are evil depending on your personal viewpoint. What is very sad though is the appalling ignorance shown by the various anonymous commentators on World and Religious history. As a muslim it pains me to read some of the comments that I beleive were posted by a muslim as one of the anonymous posters here. It seems like that person who whilst criticising others as anyonyomous also remained anonymous has swallowed the bad America evil mantra spouted by all the failed Islamic governments, the French and other people desperate to deflect criticism of themselves onto someone else and not take responsibility for the results of their own actions. Does it matter who has killed more? No. Understanding of history should help in avoiding conflicts in the future, unfortunately with the desperate need of some nations to prove they are guardians of some kind of right, Russia, Iran etc. to counterbalance what they perceive as the "evil" American empire the lessons of the past get trampled underfoot. I am no apologist for the actions of the US or anyone else but why this urge always to pin labels and blame on someone else??? and then kill them because they disagree with you.

And Sean, grow up. Accusing Murat of being anonymous is sad...at least he has the guts as you do to post under his own name unlike many of the others here

Anonymous said...

Buffoons. I told you I'm non-religious. I'm a secular Westerner. Many in the Western world are devoid or distanced from religion. The notion of separation of church and state has been around for 100 years.

Muslims tend to see the world in religious terms. Since I am critical of modern Islam, you assume I am a Christian. Everything is a religious crusade to muslims.

Metin said...

Aren't the 'secular' elite in Turkey also Muslim???

Or is there a deeper issue here? Maybe they're the great grand children of 'converts' who were forced into Islam . . . Anyone know?

Gulay said...

Anonymous. I really wish you would be brave enough to use a name and stop using insults so that when people respond they can be sure the right people understand what is being said. Read my comments, I do not assume you are anything, if anything my comtempt was for the other anonymous who is a muslim and as I believe has swallowed the "anti west" propaganda hook line and sinker. As I said I am a muslim, but do not want the secular nature of Turkey to be changed. To me religion is a personal choice and not an instrument of state. I am sure there are a lot of similar minded people in Turkey as indicated by the rallies over the last couple of weeks, I cannot speak for other countries. As for seeing your comments as an attack on Islam, instead of insulting me tell me where did I say that?

Anonymous said...

I don't know how many anonymous there, and how many of them are anti-Muslim or anti-US or whatever. I also don't think giving your name or any name is bravery at all. The beauty of this blog is that you can make a statement and be anonymous. So that no one can stamp you as anti- whatever or pro-whatever. Because nothing or no one is black or wight. The words are the important part of the discussion, not the personalities.

Anonymous said...

I don't know how many anonymous there, and how many of them are anti-Muslim or anti-US or whatever. I also don't think giving your name or any name is bravery at all. The beauty of this blog is that you can make a statement and be anonymous. So that no one can stamp you as anti- whatever or pro-whatever. Because nothing or no one is black or white. The words are the important part of the discussion, not the personalities.

Sean said...

How can you have a discussion without knowing who said what and which comment they are responding to?

It takes too much effort to try to clear up the mess created by too many anonymous visitors.

Anonymous said...

Sean, why dont you just stop posting under anom.

Gulay, I read many of your comments you seem to enjoy passing judgement on people and attacking Turks. Many of your comments are unnecessary. You are no saint my dear, please stop with the holier than thou attitude.
I'll tell you what I respect about Sean, he unlike yourself has chosen a belief, and that belief fuels his hatred for Turks. Now yes he says his comments are to better Turkey and he knows that idiots like yourself will buy that, but I see right thru him, which by the way is not so hard to do. Why? Because I'm not an self-loathing idiot Turk like yourself.
I have no problem with criticism Gulay, as long as it comes from a place of. Seans does not.
He loves Turks like yourself, I believe he calls them Modern Turks.
His definition of a modern Turk is one such as yourself, one who has no stance and is willing to talk about buying Manhattan Island for 50 dollars. As well as not minding getting f***ed in the process.

Here in LA, there are tons of Anti-Turkey Armenian groups, who are joined together to propogate and destroy Turkey. They exist because of people like yourself and many others on this site. Where are all the Turkish groups? Are they off watching soccer on the tele? Or are they out trying to make nice with the Armenian's, by pretending to be Gandhi while the Armenian diaspora are manipulateing government officials, who for the most part are Christians.

I will stop my insulting comments about Sean, when he stops insulting my intelligence. You may not mind, I do.

Anonymous said...

I have no problem with criticism of Turkey Gulay, as long as it comes from a place of love.

Sean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sean said...

Anonymous (aka az, aka gamze),

I have posted under anonymous only once, and it was partly a joke.

I do NOT hate ALL Turks, I hate Turks who are in denial - about everything.

I do want a better Turkey. A better Turkey would be great for Armenia, because Turkey is our largest neighbor and a significant player in the region. However, my "better" is different than your "better", which is where the problem starts.

You think my suggestions for a "better" Turkey are a sign of my hate toward all Turks and Turkey. You are wrong. My anger and hate are aimed at a very specific problem with the Turkish government and SOME Turks.

The election problems taking place in Turkey today are very interesting, because they show just how powerful the Turkish military is in Turkey. The problem that the Armenians are facing is that they are also up against the Turkey military. The military doesn't see a difference between the Ottoman military and the Turkish military. So, the military takes the Genocide label personally.

Until the military power in Turkey is reduced to the levels of the militaries in US and EU, Armenians will not get anywhere within Turkey, even if they get every single country on their side.

The Turkish military is stubborn and selfish. They want full control and power. They think that they can do no wrong.

I read reports that Turkey may go into Iraq by the end of May. I hope this is the case, because the Turkish military will end up shooting itself in the foot if it does that. However, I don't think they have much of a choice, because they are losing ground, on all sides.

My biggest problem right now is that the 2 sides fighting for power in Turkey are both probably bad for the causes that I am concerned about. I think the current government MAY be the better option, assuming they could act without the pressure of the military, however, that's not for certain.

Today the Court in Turkey threw out the election results. Surprise, surprise. If there was a way to bet on the politics in Turkey, my money would always be on the military. They always get their way. There is no room in the EU for a country like that.

Anonymous said...

I read reports that Turkey may go into Iraq by the end of May. I hope this is the case, because the Turkish military will end up shooting itself in the foot if it does that.

You really want to better Turkey?
It's so obvious. Gulay may believe that, she supports your ignorance, I do not and I hope others on this blog do not as well.

Take a look at Armenia, that is if your brave enough. You are not going to like what you see, I promise you that.

Calling your blog This Is Turkey and posting your daily copy and paste news is INSULTING.

Have you not noticed that no one comments on your blog.
Could it be that no one cares about what you have to say.

Get a job Sean and maybe a life as well.

Sean said...

there is a difference between wanting a better Turkey and supporting the military rule in Turkey. I do NOT support the military rule. I do NOT pretend to like them.

As I have said before, Armenia has many problems, but that doesn't mean that what's happening in Turkey should be allowed.

Am I being INSULTING? Too bad I don't live in Turkey, otherwise you would be waiting outside for me. I bet you hate the fact that every country hasn't outlawed "Insulting Turkishness" laws. By the way, that term is a misnomer. It should be called "insulting Turkish military power and control" and "old way of thinking".

Have you noticed that you don't even have a blog? Could it be because you have nothing significant and intelligent to say?

My "job" IS to educate you.

Sean said...

by the way, Gulay has a husband, which is more than I can say about you.

Maybe if you changed your attitude, someone would actually consider spending 5 minutes with you.

Anonymous said...

Sean you are a joke. You make no sense at all.

I have a wife and a JOB. You probably have never even kissed a girl, and I know for a fact that you don't have a JOB.

Your obsession with Gamze and Az, is your problem. I don't know them, but if you do not like them, they're most likely good people.
You should educate yourself more with Armenia or are you a afraid of what you may find.

Turkey will always be secular. Always.

Are you saying anything on your blog Sean, or are you merely copy and pasteing negative news about Turkey. And where is your audience.
You come here because unlike you Murat allows people to post freely.
I looked at your site, you have more comments deleted than posted coward.

You are Murats little monkey Sean, believe that. You are here because you provide entertainment and CLICKS.

Anonymous said...

Have you noticed that you do have a blog that no one visits!!!

Could it be because you have nothing significant and intelligent to say?

:-)

Anonymous said...

Sean, I do not allow you to want a better Turkey. You are not eligible to want anything about my country. Know your place.

Gulay said...

I am so tired of all this anonymous crap becaseu I respond to one anonymous the secular western one and in return some other anonymous one decides I have responded to them and once again starts insulting me. The request for names is more to be abel to make responses to the correct people instaed of having threee anonymous people get upset.

So now I am a self loathing Turk am I . You have no f****** idea what or who I am and I sick and tired of people making snap judgments about what I am or what I believe. For the record I am extremely proud of my country and its achievemnts, thye emancipation oif women, the abolition of the caliphate, but embarrassed by some of its more recent leaders and their utterances behavior (and believe me I do not think Baykal is any better than Erdogan in that regard) and actions, believe Ataturk to be one of the most visionary revolutionaries of the 20th Century but am no Kemalist and wish that the leaders of Turkey had had the courage to put his words into action instead of stopping the clock in 1938, have an elder brother who died in Cyprus, am a fanatical Galatasaray fan but detest all other form of fanatacism, bigoted nationalism, xenophobia and religious intolerance. I am a muslim on paper only as I had no choice in the matter when I was born. I am married to a Brit who is a christian on paper only for the same reason and we live in the USA after also living in Hong Kong. I believe in free speech and discussion and try to adhere to that even if I sometimes fail. I smoke, drink and eat bacon sandwiches and feel no guilt or shame as I am from a country that separates religion and state and I believe very strongly that the greatest of all human attributes is that of free will and that is one I intend to use in my personal decisions on how I live my life. I understand the risks and chose to accept them so please no preaching on how all these things are polluting my body, soul etc.

Murat Altinbasak said...

Bacon sandwiches?!?! BAD Muslim! Baaaad Muslim. Hehe.
Seriously.. ever thought about the alcohol and pork taboo in Islam? Are they equal in terms of the agonizing hell-fire which awaits bacon eaters and beer chuggers? I consider both to be a slap on the hand, but in terms of which habit is destructive, the winner is clear. Families get torn apart with alcohol abuse. Just ask myself or Ebru about it anytime. Not only are both her dad and my dad alcoholics, they're both named Irfan. Freaky. Later we discover that her grandfather used to buy hats from my grandfather (in Bursa, my GF was a famous hat maker, selling "Altinbasak" brand hats back in the 50s and 60s. I digress...
When we were little, my younger sister would go visit with a Greek family next door for 1-2 hours. The woman of the house was a close friend of my mom's. Anyhow, Elif would return and no one thought anything of it. Later we discovered that she was being given pork and bacon to eat over there. How funny is that? Today Elif is an unremorseful "bacon eater". We tease her with that distinction. Ebru and I avoid it, primarily because it is about the only Islamic thing which we comply with. No praying, fasting, or Mecca for us. Just giving to charity.. and I forgot what the 5th pillar of Islam is, but we probably don't do it.
A sincerely clean heart is far more important that "going through the motions" of Islam. Gulay, your heart is clean, I'm sure of it. Whoever has attacked you here doesn't know you like many others here do. It's too bad ignorance isn't painful.

Anonymous said...

I have sent many posts anonimously to this blog. I follow the blog closely, other posts belong to 2 more anonymous person I believe.

None of their posts I found are insulting 'Gulay' in anyway, they seem to be spot on. But sometimes it is difficult to accept who you are..And none seems have any fundamentalist Islamic content. If one reads them carefully and objectively, without trying to 'easy labelling' the personalities behind them, who knows we might even be able to exchange ideas..

I completely agree both of the anonymous bloggers opinion.

You see we are not interested who you are, who are you married to, where do you live and what do you eat or drink. (Sorry other anon. guys and gals, I spoke on behalf of all)

Though, I am not the one who commented that Gulay is one of them 'modern Turks', I totally agree with that post. Infact I applaud that very post.

Unfortunately, most here care to announce how 'modern' they are or they want to appear..

The word 'modern' has so many connotations. They all appear to be positive, but I see it not so... Regarding the previous post defining modern Turks, invites us to think twice about 'modern' and the 'modernism'. What modernism brought to world is wanted to be presented as wonderful. Think about it, you'll find that the industrial revolution was depended on one important institution in this world and that was not the scientific or technological improvement, but SLAVERY! So when you talk or hear about modernism read between the lines and all you see is the ugly face of slavery.
Also, science replacing the religion in the West is another important aspect of modernism.
When we talk about Western civilization, we have the impression of religion as something from the past and not so important. But infact what they have in the West is another concept or belief has replaced Christian religion is science. And its consquences are not allowed to be questioned, and to be obeyed blindly.
And then there is post-modernism....