"We are created by being destroyed." -F.W.
I'm often amazed with the intensity at which Turks oppose Kurdish aspirations for independence and yet, tragically, the reality is that 98% of Turks would never even know/notice if Kurds were to secede from Turkey unless it was reported in the news. For Turks it is ostensibly about "their" land but a land with which they're not even connected with nor truly even love.How many Turks were dying to vacation in Diyarbakir, Sirnak, Nusaybin, or Hakkari but couldn't because of the PKK? How many Turks grew up listening to stories of the beautiful Van lake and dreamt of swimming in it or the Munzur mountain?Do you even love the Kurdish people who inhabit those lands whom you want to be part of the Turkish state? Don't you consider them backward and conservative? Wouldn't Turkey's image as a European country be enhanced without its poor, religious countryfolk in the East and without the human rights abuses?It would not affect the life of the average Turk one iota if there was a Kurdistan.That's what makes it so tragic because for the Kurd, the struggle, the fight is about so much more than land. We Kurds can live anywhere, but of course we'd prefer to live in those lands we have inhabited for thousands of years and where our ancestors lived. If we do not struggle, we risk losing the culture, the heritage and the language so delicately protected by our ancestors. We love being Kurds....Why can't you accept that? What is it in your collective hearts as a nation that you like to make another people forcefully change their way of life to fit yours? Does it give you a sense of power? Is that what it feels to have the heart of a tyrant???I, for one, would not accept it and would feel ashamed if I forcefully made another human being change their language and their culture just to please me...Yes, I would accept being a Kurd thousand times over....
Anonymous, Since you used the word "tyrant" against our "collective hearts as a nation," I feel compelled to respond to your hypocrisy.“Tyrant” is a word that came into English through Greek, and it actually came into Greek through the Lydians in the Asian minor---in other words, from the land of Turkey before the Turks ever got to those lands.I am sure you know that the word has a negative connotation to it, otherwise you wouldn’t use it to try to belittle and condemn an entire nation with it, but I think you should look into the roots of the word and what it means/meant before you swing your sword with it. It means an individual who gives himself the authority to rule over others without a right to it. “Tyranny,” is the use of this illegitimate power unfairly or meanly/cruelly, by these “tyrants” who illegitimately declared themselves princes.You mention the Kurdish “culture, the heritage, and the language so delicately protected by our ancestors,” and ask Murat, who is a Turk, if he does not considers Kurds “backward and conservative.” You have made several cognitive distortions, several mistakes in logic in your post, and I don’t know if you did it purposefully or out of ignorance. Above all else, you are making no differentiation between the terrorist organization, PKK, and Kurds. The original post is about the PKK, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with hearing stories about Lake Van or any other romanticized version of “Kurdistan” that you have created where the terrible Turks have illegitimately declared authority over you and treat you cruelly.That is why I just started this response by saying what you write is hypocritical, but I just realized you are probably not a Turk; in other words, you are not in this country of Turkey. You do not live here and have no clue of the realities of this nation of "collective hearts." My non-Kurdish cousin went to college in Diyarbakir. Almost every single day, when she walked from her dorm to her classes she’d get pelted with mud, dirt, stones, with kids yelling “go back to your country, you *!#$ Turk!” So when you ask how many Turks dream of a vacation in Sirnak or the other areas where the PKK is seen as more legitimate than the Turkish Republic, you are completely minimizing the horrendous behavior of your fellow Kurds. Of course Turks would love to travel and vacation in every square inch of their own country, as they have a right to do.You ask why the Turks try to force their own beliefs onto the Kurdish culture that has been so delicately protected over the years. Do you have any idea what is going on then, in that region? Do you know that the United Nations organizations have been there for years, trying to convince Kurdish men to send their daughters to school (and to not hit their wives)? UNICEF has started a program “Baba beni okula gonder” (Dad, send me to school) solely to address this Kurdish issue since Kurds refuse to follow the Turkish laws of the land. The terrible Turks evidently couldn’t force the locals to follow the laws and send their girls to school, so international organizations have to go there and try to convince these progressive and liberally cultured (as opposed to backward and conservative) Kurds. These are people who often have more kids than they can keep track of, and of course these children are not from a single legitimate wife, either. Even if these girls follow the delicate Kurdish customs and NOT go to school, then they face another hurdle of getting married or getting killed by their own relatives if they somehow disgrace their family’s honor. International organizations are there to try to change this---they must be tyrants, right?By the way, I am making these generalizations of culture about a very specific group of people in a very specific area of Turkey. In this day and age, most Kurds live WEST of Ankara. That’s right, those lands that you dream of and have heard of ever since you were a kid, most Kurds in Turkey choose not to live there—the ones that can figure out a way to leave the area do so. You may say it is because it is an impoverished region and they leave for economic reasons, and that may be the case. It may also be the case that they are running away from those cherished Kurdish customs you mention, or more likely than either of these two, they are escaping the threat/danger/economic oppression that they experience because of the PKK. People throughout the world migrate for various reasons, sometimes returning to their homeland of “thousands of years” and sometimes not.The Turks that came out of the Central Asia into Anatolia over a thousand years ago migrated for various reasons as well. If you know anything about the creation of the Republic of Turkey, you know the major player was a man named Ataturk—not a Central Asian Turk by background, but from the Balkans—and the second major player was Ismet Inonu, who is a Kurd from Malatya. These two leaders, and all of the people who followed them into war, they won the right to create the Republic of Turkey. They earned that right and that nation is a legitimate entity because of all of their efforts. They created laws that made sure the female citizens of their nation were treated equally to their male counterparts.If you refuse to recognize the legitimacy of that nation in your own heart, then by all means, refuse it. However, you HAVE TO understand that those beliefs that you carry in your heart in no way give you (any Kurd) the right to behave illegally or take part in terrorist activities. Forget about breaking the laws of the land, the PKK is breaking international human rights laws. There is no excuse for that. Any person who tries to find an excuse for that, like Abdullah Ocalan, is the real “tyrant,”--the real illegitimate prince. Your loving your language or your heritage or your culture gives you ZERO rights when it comes to harming me—or my nation’s unity.Please continue to love your ethnic heritage and continue to pass it on to your own children and grandchildren. Just try to avoid passing on any hate or ignorance while you’re at it. Because I can personally say that although I am very glad that I am a Turk, I would never say I would prefer it a “thousand times over,” to any other group of people since that is literally racism. Anyway, I wish you peace of mind and hope that you know that when you come to these lands and love these lands as all of us Turks do (Kurdish Turks included), then you will realize that these lands are yours as well. They are the lands of every law-abiding peaceful person who choose to love it and live on it.
BBC broadcasted this news on Sunday.No Roj tv needed..)))I don't want to get scalped so no more comments...regards
Finduk,It is with dismay that I submit that your post proved the entirety of my point. Your approach seems akin to the colonialist mentality internalized by people like the British in their "conquests" while they spread what they deemed to be their civilized culture abroad. Your post smacks of superiority and demeans Kurdish culture. Yes, the Kurds are backward as you point out and our "delicate" culture may be lost to you -- but that is exactly my point. You have absolutely zero appreciation for who the Kurds are and their culture, so obviously, you have no interest in preserving it. Every culture has backward elements in it. The Kurds have more than another people's share because of years of poverty and repression. This doesn't mean the culture should be discarded wholesale. Some may even look upon Turkish culture as backward; they may see in your repression of minorities something more threatening and more resilient to change than other social evils...Ask yourself how you would feel if by some poetic justice you were forced not to speak and teach your children Turkish and celebrate the little things that give your life meaning as a Turk? What would it take to convince your heart, mind and soul it would be better to live your life as a Spaniard, a Greek, an Armenian? My wish to be a Kurd thousand times over is not some illiberal, racist wish but rather, it is to shock you that even given the uphill battle I face as a Kurd, I would choose not to be the oppressor, the colonizer -- I would not want to choose the heart of the Tyrant. It is more a rejection of the mentality you preach rather than an attempt to falsely praise Kurdishness.And, of course, the point about the collective hearts and tyranny is a generalization, but there are philosophical truths to be had in generalizations....And especially when you magnify the flaw so painfully.
Also, I am not even going to enter the debate of terrorism since it is pretty much agenda-driven and filled with hypocrisy.If international human rights abuses and terrorism have no excuse, let's please start with the Turkish state. Their crimes are more numerous, much more heinous, and less excusable since they are carried out by a state that's supposed to be governed by the rule of law.Just in case you draw a blank on human rights abuses, just visit any amnesty international website and search for turkey.Terrorism in iraq? Look no further than the captured Turkish special forces in Kerkuk who were planning to assasinate the local mayor and who were arrested by the US mid-action.Killing of civilians? Look at the incidents in Diyarbakir uprising in 2006 where security forces opened fire against civilians killing even children, the youngest who was 3 years old and sitting in his balcony.and on and on...I didn't even want to mention it because it is like spitting into the wind.
hans.. if I didn't know you better I would have said "GROW A SPINE!".. but I like you. I wish I could have found a BBC vid in Youtube, but did not, so Roj tv will suffice. In fairness, I sent the vid to a few Yahoo groups and one of them on the left coast rejected it, saying they refuse to support Roj tv.. Pret-ty lame, Millhouse! What's the big deal? They have many tv stations.. and as long as they treat the captives honorably and refrain from harming them, I'll be a good sport and use Roj tv. Big deal.
anonymous: Proof? Source? for this remark please?:"Terrorism in iraq? Look no further than the captured Turkish special forces in Kerkuk who were planning to assasinate the local mayor and who were arrested by the US mid-action."
Finduk- spot on!I especially like this:"I would never say I would prefer it a “thousand times over,” to any other group of people.."Speaking only for myself here.. is there any such thing as a "full blooded" Turk? I happen to know that one of my great grandparents is Bulgarian and another is Tatar (my paternal aunts and my sister have slanty eyes). Before them, who knows? When I married my wife, it wasn't because she was Turkish in the ethnic sense.. it was because she was Turkish in the national and cultural sense. Traditions.. Beliefs.. all compatible. She could have been Kurdish or Armenian for all I care. But mostly I'm glad to have found someone from Turkey.. To beat your chest as a proud ethnic Turk is so.. cheesy.. not to mention racist. We are not the KKK. We are Turkish citizens. To me it's acceptable for a person to be proud of being a Turkish citizen, to honor the sacrifices that so many men and women made before us, and to defend the land and borders which are populated by our citizens, without regard for what language they speak, or what g-d they worship.
"What is it in your collective hearts as a nation that you like to make another people forcefully change their way of life to fit yours? Does it give you a sense of power? Is that what it feels to have the heart of a tyrant???"Collectively judging all Turks as oppressive tyrants is offsides, DUDE. Personally, I wish it were possible for all Kurds to speak, read, write, sing, dance in their own language. I'm against any limitations of this sort. but you must understand that it is Apo and the PKK which make such curbing of your rights necessary. If there was no threat, no terrorism, no separatism, no hatred of 'Turks' by Kurdish people, such restrictions would have never been necessary. When Kurds are hell bent on killing Turks, the State has no choice but to do things which keep you weak (and yes, very pissed off) Isn't it true that many such restrictions have been eased if not eliminated completely? Give credit where it's due. "I, for one, would not accept it and would feel ashamed if I forcefully made another human being change their language and their culture just to please me..."Again, you are in error. It pleases no one that the largest ethnic group in Turkey lays claim to 1/3 of Turkish land (right or wrong, it's now Turkish land) but that they also make it clear that they intend to be a hostile neighbor, no matter where the borders are established, if at all. Look at Northern Iraq, or what you refer to as Southern Kurdistan.. If I were a Kurd, I would feel pretty damn good about falling ass-backwards into semi-autonomy, courtesy of the Bush dynasty's war on terror. Not to say Kurds didn't fight and earn it on some level, but why can't Kurds appreciate what they potentially have and refrain from staging cross border terrorist attacks into so-called "Northern Kurdistan"? As for those within Turkey's borders causing death and mayhem, why don't they go to the one place where Kurds seem to have hoisted their own flag? Why don't they leave Turkey and go to SK/NI? Most likely because their quality of life in Turkey is too good to pass up. I don't know for sure.
thanks Murat, I like you as well.But not 'anonymus' comments here...(((I get so tired about who is what...I am a Turkified European Dutch...so, who am I?..)))Google Fons Trompenaars for me..))
I remember a song of 30 years ago: give peace a chance...Dear finduk, no way that you know the Old Greek language which is oppressed upon me to understand Plato etc. better...)))Tyrant is a commom word in these days world..((
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