America's #1 Balance Bike Destination

America's #1 Balance Bike Destination
America's #1 Balance Bike Destination

25 October 2007

Vote on Armenian 'genocide' resolution put off

A victory, but for who? All this bad publicity for Turks and Armenians.. makes both sides look foolish. It's like a classic school yard argument: Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Pelosi's a god damn hall monitor who decides to take one side over the other (the one which is Christian, by coincidence). Too bad the principal of the school has other interests.. 10,000 km away, where a special pet project is in danger of disintegrating and adding about 100,000 people to the unemployment lines over here.. I'd thank the Bush administration, but they acted in their own best interests, not Turkey's and not Armenia's. Still, when you win a sprint to the finish line of a bike race.. even after 10 competitors hit the deck behind you, "a Win's a Win". We'll take it.. People should refrain from walking in reverse while trying to move forward.. that is.. if they ever intend to move forward.. For the US, it seemed like one of those "yukari tukursem biyik, asaga tukursem sakal" situations.. Seems that for now, they've decided to swallow the poison.. but there will be more of that to go around soon enough.. Just buy the next SOAD album to be released.. and see how exploiting one's talent and fame is all that's needed to perpetuate hatred.. In the mean time, Armenia will continue to languish as a back water third world land locked mafia controlled country with no natural resources and no access or trade with Turkey. Heck even their alphabet is as old as dirt. (There's my gratuitous jab at Armenians. Don't anyone cry. Turks have been invaded, blown up, knifed, shot dead and kicked around like a red-headed step child for many moons, and we're still standing. Emotionally numb to the pain of our enemies, but moving forward in leaps and bounds) Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the resolution's consequences on the war in Iraq would be "quite dire."


Metin said...

This was NEVER about Genocide vs. 'Genocide.'

It was NEVER about the Armenians.

It was about whether or not Turkey was bluffing about going into Iraq, to pull Iran and Israel into the 'War on Terror.'

Turkey did not flinch. The Turkish government, in the line of fire, used restraint. AKP comes through again! Kurdistan will have to wait a little longer!

And Pelosi looks like a fool. And she didn't even collect a paycheck from the Turkish Lobby!

Murat Altinbasak said...

Metin, Iran is part of the war against terror. They're working with and learning from Turkish counter insurgency forces, together as a team against Kurdish terrorists.
Israel bristles at the "your enemy is my enemy" cooperation between Turkey and Iran.
What about Turkey "bluffing" about closing incirlik and other supply lines originating in Turkey?
I agree with your remarks, but you've over simplified it I think.

Metin said...

From a 'perceived' point of view, and not 'factual' as you present it, Iran is part of the axis of evil, and therefore part of the 'theory' of terror.

Keep in mind, the U.S. has the 'exclusivity' on the usage of the term, 'War on Terror,' and its application.

So are you with us, or with them?

Of course, my sarcasm shows in at least 3 of the above statements.

Anonymous said...

Murat said...."Turks have been invaded, blown up, knifed, shot dead and kicked around like a red-headed step child for many moons, and we're still standing. Emotionally numb to the pain of our enemies, but moving forward in leaps and bounds)."

Not sure where the "we" in that statement comes from.Through your own admission, you are an American (of Turkish decent, not a Turk).

paul said...

I'm just curious what's wrong with having an old and beautiful alphabet? I'm serious. I'm not taking offense, I'm generally curious what's wrong with an "old" alphabet. If it works, it works. I mean the Latin alphabet goes back millenia and you don't seem to be trashing it. After all Turkey uses it. It's nice to have your own, it's part of the culture, are you jealous that Turkey doesn't have one of it's own?
It just seemed like a stupid jab to make, and using the fact that Turks have been criticized a lot doesn't make it any more sensible a jab. What's next, making fun of Armenia because their country is usually colored red on maps instead of say yellow or green? Or that their capital begins with a Y and therefore is one of hte last capitals of the world alphabetically? The 'jab' was more than a tad random and about as hurtful as telling someone they have brown hair...

Metin said...

I've already addressed Ataturk's obsession with the West (by changing its alphabet) was to create a disconnect with its past, in the name of progress.

The Japanese never caved in. And I don't think their 'hard' alphabet prevents them from being highly successful.

I am proud of the Armenians who stuck by their alphabet. It shows a sign of their cultural pride.

Phantom said...

Murat, if you're going to try to garner pity from people, try to use a tactic that does not involve stupidly making fun of an ancient language and alphabet. Moreover, nobody is going to pity a bully. Armenia is 1/25th the size of Turkey. Is there really any need for you to try to belittle it?

Murat Altinbasak said...

"Not sure where the "we" in that statement comes from.Through your own admission, you are an American (of Turkish decent, not a Turk)."

Read the title of the blog, dingus:
"Amerikan Turk"
Tum geri zekalilar beni buluyor.. Hayret bir sey.

Murat Altinbasak said...

"Murat, if you're going to try to garner pity from people, try to use a tactic that does not involve stupidly making fun of an ancient language and alphabet. Moreover, nobody is going to pity a bully. Armenia is 1/25th the size of Turkey. Is there really any need for you to try to belittle it?"

Phantom, thanks for your comment, but you're being foolish. I will be the last person to try to "garner pity". That is an Armenian national pastime.
Yes, the Armenian alphabet is indeed beautiful. Great. Is it so sacred that it is off limits to my stupid tongue in cheek remarks?
I am not a bully. You just happen to feel bullied by my words. Sorry about that, but I don't choose my words in order to please anyone. In fact, many Turks have a low opinion of me. No worries.. Belittle Armenia? No there's truly no need for that because it would be redundant! What do you call the Armenian attitude towards Turks? You don't exactly prop us up onto a pedestal, do you?.. So why do you expect to be treated any differently?

Phantom said...

It's tiresome how you love to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Poor baby, you're emotionally numb from the hell it must be to be a Turk in this world. It's so difficult that you can't help but make disparaging comments at every opportunity against everything Armenian. I know, it must be hell to live in a community with so few Armenian restaurants to burn down and destroy. Lucky for you, you have this blog to release your nasty side onto the Earth.

Murat Altinbasak said...

Actually, Providence, RI has a very large Armenian community, Phantom. Their flag flies high right alongside their church on I-95. Phantom, your tireless objections to everything I say means we're pretty much incompatible.. so why do you return here? Do you simply enjoy exercising your own nastiness? Give it a workout? Look through the 900+ posts in this site and you will discover not one single kind word from an Armenian.

Phantom said...

There's a big difference between talking about historical facts and making racist comments such as you make. Today, Turks are killing Turkish-Armenian human rights activists and then criminally prosecuting their children for publishing their father's work; they are punishing anyone who says the word Genocide; they are burning down Armenian owned restaurants in Belgium; they are threatening foreign countries who dare speak the truth; they are hacking Armenian websites and shutting them down; and they are blogging all over the place that it was, in fact, the Armenians who have committed a Genocide.

In this blog, in almost every article that has anything to do with Armenians, you can't control yourself from making an openly racist comment, and somehow you shockingly expect Armenians who come here to say nice things about Turks. Amazing.
If you were not such a virulhater of the Armenian, there would be plenty of nice things that

Phantom said...


we could say. Why don't you start, and I will follow. Given that I was in Turkey this summer, I'm sure I can think of plenty of nice things to say.

Phantom said...

BTW, it is a nation in progress, but it's wrong for you to call it a third world backwater land. That you make those kinds of comments says more about you than about the subject of which you speak.

Armenia a Model for Developing Nations Economic reform and investment by Armenian expatriates have helped the country boost GDP by more than 10% a year for a decade

by S. Adam Cardais

To appreciate just how far Armenia has come in the last 15 years, it helps to imagine yourself living through an Armenian winter in the early 1990s.

It's the middle of January, it's five degrees below zero, and you and your family have only two hours of electricity a day -- such was the abysmal state of the energy sector in a country crippled by the dissolution of the Soviet Union, a traumatic earthquake in 1988, and war with neighboring Azerbaijan.

But Armenia has been "radically transformed," in the words of one World Bank official, since its independence from the former Soviet Union. Today, the average Armenian has electricity around the clock.

An influx of cash and a series of reforms have taken Armenia from economic basket case, with GDP plummeting 50 percent between 1990 and 1993, to "Caucasian tiger," to quote a World Bank report issued earlier this year. It has become a model transition economy that should continue prospering with a second wave of reforms.

GDP has increased more than 10 percent a year for a decade largely thanks to robust investment in a booming construction industry by the Armenian diaspora in Europe and the United States. Sharp growth in the services sector, including the financial sphere, and retail trade are also contributors, according to the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development.

"Given the fact that it doesn't have natural resources, its growth is quite impressive," says Heike Harmgart, country economist for Armenia at the EBRD.

And the most laudable aspect of that growth, World Bank economist Aristomene Varoudakis says, is "that macroeconomic stability has been preserved. Inflation has remained low," between 3 percent and 4 percent. Last year was an exception to this trend, with inflation climbing to 5.6 percent, but the International Monetary Fund forecasts a fall to 4 percent in 2007.


This fiscal discipline is an indication the government has backed up the bountiful diaspora remittances, which are more good fortune than anything else, with sound policy. Indeed, remittances alone don't make Armenia a model transition economy. A series of early, sustained governmental reforms enabled the country to capitalize on the cash inflow.

For instance, the government eliminated wage controls and privatized the majority of land and small businesses in the mid 1990s to encourage investment in construction and other sectors. The central bank has also been a key reformer, streamlining its operations and improving supervision over the banking industry to spur a dynamic financial services sector in a short period.

More recently, a new credit bureau to bolster small business lending and a modernized bankruptcy law have further improved the investment climate, two reasons Armenia ranks 39th out of 178 economies in the World Bank's "Doing Business 2008" report.

On all of these reforms, Armenia has been wise to cooperate closely with international institutions such as The World Bank and the IMF.

"The Armenian government has been listening to institutions very well, which is positive," Harmgart says. "The government has always been open minded."

It would be hard to overstate the benefit this economic revolution has brought the population. According to the World Bank report, the poverty rate has fallen from more than 55 percent in the early 1990s to 30 percent. Extreme poverty had dropped to 5 percent two years ago.


The good news for the region is that Armenia's prosperity isn't unique. Georgia's economy is growing at just under 10 percent and is one of the leading reformers in the world, at No. 18 on the "Doing Business 2008" report. Azerbaijan posted a whopping 34.5 percent GDP growth in 2006 thanks to its thriving oil industry.

As in these countries, though, there's still a lot of progress to be made in Armenia. Tax evasion remains rampant. It's extremely costly for an individual or business to file taxes, and tax revenues are only 15 percent of GDP, one of the lowest rates in the region, resulting in less money for strengthening the economy or fighting poverty through spending on education or health care.

The government is trying to increase tax compliance by introducing a system that allows payers to submit their returns by post or electronically, publishing a list of the country's largest contributors in a sort of ego-driven motivator, and opening specialized collections units, but more progress is needed.

Corruption, though becoming less pronounced, is also a major concern, as is Armenia's over-reliance on the construction industry. Though analysts predict Armenia will sustain double-digit growth in the short and medium term, it has to begin diversifying its economy by making trade more dynamic and attracting new knowledge-based investments, such as IT companies.

Reforms in corporate transparency, competition, and education will be central to realizing this goal, but "these are more complex reforms than the first round," Varoudakis points out.

Armenia has without a doubt taken great strides, but nothing highlights progress like starting from nothing. If the country wants to remain a "Caucasian tiger," it had better prioritize these difficult reforms now.

These will take a lot longer than turning on the power.

Phantom said...

BTW, that article was published in Businessweek on October 23, 2007.

Murat Altinbasak said...

"In this blog, in almost every article that has anything to do with Armenians, you can't control yourself from making an openly racist comment, and somehow you shockingly expect Armenians who come here to say nice things about Turks. Amazing."

I have no such expectations. Armos hate us, they make no secret of it, they call our national hero a pedophile and a tyrant, they finger today's Turks as complicit in whatever happened so long ago, they have a famous rock group indictrinating Armenian youth and fanning the flames, they try to turn all the world's nations against us, and more.. not exactly an atmosphere of love or understanding. You reap what you sow.

Phantom said...

You just pick and choose what you want to hear in order to justify your racism. Most Armos, even those who fight for Genocide recognition, are quick to point out that the guilty parties are the Ittihadists that committed the Genocide, not the Turks today. However, what's amazing, is that the Turks of today, like you, instead of honoring the victims and those Turks who risked their lives saving the survivors, side with the perpetrators by trying to cover up their crime. As for SOAD, the band members have never accused modern Turks of Genocide. They simply tell the truth about what happened to their grandparents who grew up as orphans along with hundreds of thousands of other Armenian children of their generation.

Anyway, the saying goes, "you reap what you sew." If a nation spends 90 years and countless forms of blackmail and bribes to cover up a Genocide of another nation, what do you expect. No form of reason and call to humanity has worked with the vast majority of Turkish people. Even today, the Turkish people continue to use violence and physical intimidation as a means of expressing themselves against descendants of Genocide victims. How can you continue to defend and seek pity for such people?

Anonymously yours, said...

I am with you, Murat. Armenians hatred for us is very, very well known by ALL. Whenever I tell anyone that I am a Turk - and God forbid they have any Armenian friends - they are awfully quick to look at me with some disdain. They (the Armenians) keep on telling their sad sobbing (and untrue) stories about us and then they expect us to feel pity for them? Heck no! I'm tired of all of this nonesense.

We have been through this before with them a thousand times by asking - no begging - them to open up their archives as Turkey has so freely done. We have requested that a joint commission of experts sift through the documents to determine who is telling the truth and, again, they have rejected that offer.

What more does this Turkish govenrment have to doto satisfy the Armenians? As I see it, the Turkish govenment has been fair and reasonable.

Enough already!

Murat Altinbasak said...

Anonymously Mine,
You are so right. Tell someone you're Turkish and they'll say one of three things:
1. "Hey I bet you don't have any Greek or Armenian friends.."
2. "Dude, I SAW Midnight Express!"
3. "Do you ever go there? I hear it's dangerous."
I swear, sometimes I want to pop someone in the mouth.
One dingbat lady, overhearing that I'm going to Turkey as I speak with her boyfriend, says "What do you know about those wild monkeys that are all over the place?"
Imagine the awkward silence and the look on my face.

Murat Altinbasak said...

"How can you continue to defend and seek pity for such people?"

blind nationalism with a dash of fascist Kemalism.

paul said...

Well certainly quit a big hubbub has erupted here, but I'm still just harping on the one little thing.
Do you hate Armenians that much that you make fun of the alphabet for no reason at all and then procede to justify this based on being a downtrodden Turk? This just seems like an inferiority complex here where you need to take cheap shots to try and bring Armenia down, but these shots are so cheap they just make you look stupid.
I mean why not go criticize Israel for having an even older alphabet? The number of "old" alphabets still used today is immense and I still can't figure out why you'd attack it so meaninglessly.
Stop worrying about it phantom, because it's clear that Murat is just hate-filled. I don't care if every Armenian you've ever seen has been hate-filled Murat, it's not excuse to be it back. What happened to being the better person here? Instead you're just making yourself look idiotic because the worst insult you could muster is that they use an beautiful ancient alphabet which has survived for millenia. Meanwhile Turkish was written in Arabic script before it was written with Latin, so to choose having a unique alphabet of all things to attack about Armenia when Turkey does never even had one is even more pathetic. Your attempts at insults only make YOU look bad.

Murat Altinbasak said...

Paul your sentiments are appreciated. This blog was not created in order to prove that I am 'good', to the world or to anyone in it.
People come and go of their own free will.. including some who have a low opinion of me and/or my words. If you expect me to express some kind of remorse for what I've said, you will be disappointed. Hatred is the easiest emotion to reciprocate, by the way. But it helps to understand the definition of hate. It's confused with a lot of other things, including tongue in cheek sarcasm.

Metin said...

Since when did blogs become a source of 'fact' filled innuendos and political correctness. Until now that was reserved for the mainstream 'News.'

Oh . . . not that either!

Speaking of old alphabets, did kids in ancient lands have more choices having a cup of alphabet soup . . . you know . . . u got more letters for your money.

Sean said...

Here is an interesting article that raises some very valid points:

Anoosh said...

I am a grandchild of four survivors of the Armenian Genocide. I do not hate all Turks. Many of the survivors of the Armenian Genocide were actually saved by Turks. That is how they survived. My paternal grandmother was rescued from a death march by a Turkish hannum and brought to work in the hannum's home. That woman saved my grandmother's life. I want to thank the good Turks, the ones who risked their lives to rescue Armenians. It was punishable by death to save an Armenian, yet many Turks helped their Armenian neighbors. Before the killings started, some honorable Turks warned their neighbors that the Government had a plan to exterminate all Armenians. Once the killing began, some good Turks hid Armenians in their homes, their barns.

Armenians know this. We also know that Armenians and Turks share a similiar culture, similiar cuisine, similiar music. But, how can you expect us to embrace you and to thank you for helping us when you stand by your ignorant lies and dishonor the memory of those same Armenians that some of your ancestors helped save?? There were good, honorable and brave Turks in 1915. Where have they all gone? Why is it that today's Turks can't even take pride in what their ancestors did because to do so would subject you to imprisonment under section 301?

Let us thank you. Let us speak kindly of you. We want to. But, you must first acknowledge the truth. Then we can speak of the good Turks who saved many Armenians.

Andy Hofer said...

That last comment is the best one here... Why is it that Americans can admit that their ancestors committed genocide against Native Americans for hundreds of years, Germans and some Japanese can admit the atrocities of WWII, yet the Turks are absolutely unable to admit what their ancestors did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries? The WORLD knows what happened, even if every Turkish citizen denies it. The earliest American relief movements were started by Americans trying to help save Armenians from extermination, and the news stories of the day were FILLED with accounts by AMERICANS of the slaughter. There's no two sides to this, it's not a you-said/I-said proposition. The Genocide took place. There's no more question about this than about the Nazi holocaust. ONLY Turkey continues to deny that these events took place. If only Turkey would admit what occurred, the world would give Turkey the respect that they would then deserve. But Turkey perpetuates the atrocity by trying to wipe out the memory of what happened. I'm a 5th generation American of European descent, I know almost NO Armenians, so I have no reason to side with them -- except that THEY were the victims. How the heck did Turkey become a victim? What a rewrite of history... Why do people of Turkish descent have such a capacity for denial? It's mind boggling. I have no trouble admitting that my European/American ancestors probably committed the worst genocide in human history right in in the good old USA. But then we don't hate Native Americans much in this country today, but the Turkish people seem to still hate Armenians as much today as when they were openly slaughtering whole families in the streets with the help and approval of the government. Just ADMIT IT, that's ALL you need to do as a first step toward entering civilized society.

yargisborg said...

We shouldnt stall a regonition bill because it might harm our relations with Turkey. We should pass the bill because its the right thing to do. If Gerany denied the Holocaust the USA would be enraged,but we cann deny the Armenian Genocide? Shame on us.

yargisborg said...

We shouldnt stall a regonition bill because it might harm our relations with Turkey. We should pass the bill because its the right thing to do. If Gerany denied the Holocaust the USA would be enraged,but we cann deny the Armenian Genocide? Shame on us.