America's #1 Balance Bike Destination

America's #1 Balance Bike Destination
America's #1 Balance Bike Destination

29 October 2007

We are all Mustafa Kemal. We are all Turks.

Photo
Children in military uniforms wave flags as a nationalist protester carrying portrait of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of modern Turkey, to protest against the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in Istanbul October 27, 2007. The placards read, "We all are Mustafa Kemal. We all are Turks". The demonstrators were protesting against the killing of Turkish soldiers by the PKK Kurdish rebels in southeast Turkey as well the U.S. policy over northern Iraq. (TURKEY)  REUTERS/Fatih Saribas

20 comments:

Hans said...

The parents of these kids need some spanking..))
Dragging your own children through the street in militair uniform is outrageous...

Don't know shit about Turkey said...

Can someone give me a brief history lesson? Is Mustafa Kemal Ataturk like our George Washington? Who was in control of Turkey when he took over?

Don't know shit about Turkey said...

Nevermind. I just read the post below this one. Very well written and informative. He sounds like he did more than Washington...

Metin said...

Hans,

Unless they are fresh recruits . . . or if you drag someone else's children. I guess it's better than parading around in drag . . .

the Husband said...

hans,

why is this outrageous....the republic was founded becasue people stood up and siad enough is enough and I am sure that that included kids...get off your liberl, weed smoking, whore tolerating, junkie dutch soapbox and begin to understand what makes the turks tick.....

Mitat Yerli said...

Hans, if you think this is child abuse, you should join us in our discussions about circumcision.

Hans said...

husband,
i find your comment vulgair: screamer.
mitat,
both are unacceptable.

the Husband said...

hans, you are so two faced, you can stand on your soap box and criticize Turks but when someone criticisizes your wonderful country and its ways those comments are vulgar, tell me, what was inaccurate or incorrect about the generalistions of dutch culture....oh and I find your comments extremely condescending, arrogant and patronizing..then you wonder why foreigners are worried in Turkey at the moment...look in the mirror

Hans said...

H. You can critize my country whenever you want, or I do it myself.
but the way how you do it is vulgair, regarding language.
I am not talking only about foreigners, but kurds, armenians even turks who are scared.

Tufan said...

One thing which I am always ashamed of, talking with my Turkish people is that they have the tendency to scream. You can see that on many forums. What I see here, is that one person, Hans, shows his fear, and get bullied of. Is that normal? Are we neo-nationalistic? And the same old rhetoric: Armenians hates us, let’s hate them back! Is that the solution? And let me tell you one secret: I am in a relation with an Armenian…

Metin said...

Why all this obsession and idolization after one man who did a lot of good, but still is in the past.

Why us Turks always have to live in the past. Is it because we have nothing to offer at the present or the future.

Or will we still be talking about following Ataturk's 'path' at every chance we get in our blindness of the path we're on.

It's time to stop hiding behind the Ataturk veil, and show who we are, and why we are at how we are, in an open society.

We argue all day about Armenians not opening up the 'debate' books and research what really happen. But we are the first to be hypocritical as we choose to keep Ataturk a 'taboo' and untouchable as far as 'debate' goes regarding some of his policies, and 'reforms.'

This is not an indication of Anti-Ataturkism on my part. It's just an observation of how we keep hiding things in the closet, even when there is nothing to hide, or at least we hope, with the wishful thinking that maybe all that interest will go away one day.

We treat the Armenian 'Genocide' issue the same way. We feel if enough years pass by, it will just go away.

It's time to confront. And confront the past. We all have to do it in our personal lives. It makes us become a better person.

Anonymous said...

Merhaba. I am posting the letter below for the benefit of participants on this web site who have been discussing how modern Turks can deal with the vexing issue of this disturbing chapter in Turkish history.

The damage being done to the image of Turkey is extensive because the majority of the world accepts Turkish responsibility for this crime against humanity. For the sake of your country please recognize that this issue will NEVER GO AWAY until Turkish people take the painful step of recognizing and apologizing for what happened.

I know that there are many good and honorable Turkish people but anyone who denies genocide is engaging in the last phase of a genocidal action which is to deny that it happened. This makes deniers culpable in covering up a crime.

Please read the unanimous decision posted for your benefit below. The Turkish government talks about the need for "studies" of the issue but these studies have been already done and are quite definitive as indicated below.

Peace to you and may the memory of the victims be eternal in our hearts.

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GENOCIDE SCHOLARS

President
Israel Charny (Israel)

First Vice-President
Gregory H. Stanton (USA)

Second Vice-President
Linda Melvern (UK)

Secretary-Treasurer
Steven Jacobs (USA)

June 13, 2005
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan
TC Easbakanlik
Bakanlikir
Ankara, Turkey
FAX: 90 312 417 0476


Dear Prime Minister Erdogan:

We are writing you this open letter in response to your call for an “impartial study by historians” concerning the fate of the Armenian people in the Ottoman Empire during World War I.

We represent the major body of scholars who study genocide in North America and Europe. We are concerned that in calling for an impartial study of the Armenian Genocide you may not be fully aware of the extent of the scholarly and intellectual record on the Armenian Genocide and how this event conforms to the definition of the United Nations Genocide Convention. We want to underscore that it is not just Armenians who are affirming the Armenian Genocide but it is the overwhelming opinion of scholars who study genocide: hundreds of independent scholars, who have no affiliations with governments, and whose work spans many countries and nationalities and the course of decades. The scholarly evidence reveals the following:

On April 24, 1915, under cover of World War I, the Young Turk government of the Ottoman Empire began a systematic genocide of its Armenian citizens – an unarmed Christian minority population. More than a million Armenians were exterminated through direct killing, starvation, torture, and forced death marches. The rest of the Armenian population fled into permanent exile. Thus an ancient civilization was expunged from its homeland of 2,500 years.

The Armenian Genocide was the most well-known human rights issue of its time and was reported regularly in newspapers across the United States and Europe. The Armenian Genocide is abundantly documented by thousands of official records of the United States and nations around the world including Turkey’s wartime allies Germany, Austria and Hungary, by Ottoman court-martial records, by eyewitness accounts of missionaries and diplomats, by the testimony of survivors, and by decades of historical scholarship.

The Armenian Genocide is corroborated by the international scholarly, legal, and human rights community:

1) Polish jurist Raphael Lemkin, when he coined the term genocide in 1944, cited the Turkish extermination of the Armenians and the Nazi extermination of the Jews as defining examples of what he meant by genocide.

2) The killings of the Armenians is genocide as defined by the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

3) In 1997 the International Association of Genocide Scholars, an organization of the world’s foremost experts on genocide, unanimously passed a formal resolution affirming the Armenian Genocide.

4) 126 leading scholars of the Holocaust including Elie Wiesel and Yehuda Bauer placed a statement in the New York Times in June 2000 declaring the “incontestable fact of the Armenian Genocide” and urging western democracies to acknowledge it.

5) The Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide (Jerusalem), and the Institute for the Study of Genocide (NYC) have affirmed the historical fact of the Armenian Genocide.

6) Leading texts in the international law of genocide such as William A. Schabas’s Genocide in International Law (Cambridge University Press, 2000) cite the Armenian Genocide as a precursor to the Holocaust and as a precedent for the law on crimes against humanity.

We note that there may be differing interpretations of genocide—how and why the Armenian Genocide happened, but to deny its factual and moral reality as genocide is not to engage in scholarship but in propaganda and efforts to absolve the perpetrator, blame the victims, and erase the ethical meaning of this history.

We would also note that scholars who advise your government and who are affiliated in other ways with your state-controlled institutions are not impartial. Such so-called “scholars” work to serve the agenda of historical and moral obfuscation when they advise you and the Turkish Parliament on how to deny the Armenian Genocide. In preventing a conference on the Armenian Genocide from taking place at Bogacizi University in Istanbul on May 25, your government revealed its aversion to academic and intellectual freedom—a fundamental condition of democratic society.

We believe that it is clearly in the interest of the Turkish people and their future as a proud and equal participants in international, democratic discourse to acknowledge the responsibility of a previous government for the genocide of the Armenian people, just as the German government and people have done in the case of the Holocaust.

Approved Unanimously at the Sixth biennial meeting of

THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GENOCIDE SCHOLARS (IAGS)

June 7, 2005, Boca Raton, Florida

Contacts: Israel Charny, IAGS President; Executive Director, Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide, Jerusalem, Editor-in-Chief, Encyclopedia of Genocide, 972-2-672-0424; encygeno@mail.com

Gregory H. Stanton, IAGS Vice President; President, Genocide Watch, James Farmer Visiting Professor of Human Rights, University of Mary Washington; 703-448-0222; genocidewatch@aol.com

Metin said...

Anonymous: "Please read the unanimous decision . . . "

What does this prove?

This is not going to be solved by letter writing campaigns (by both sides).

This will be solved by mutual respect and cooperation.

As I said many times before, "No matter the origin, perpetrators, or excuse, it's about time for real debate and discussion by all relevant parties. It's the responsibility of both sides to resolve this issue once and for all. All guilty parties should admit guilt so that the long process of reconciliation and healing can then begin."

Mitat Yerli said...

Dear Anonymous Armenian:

Why should the Muslim Turks put any credibilty to arguments that pick and chose what was happenning at that specific time in history? Who in the Christian West talks about the Muslim genocide of the Balkans that preceded the Armenian one? Who questions why things happened the way they did for Armenians-- in all honesty if we are to learn a lesson from it? Why single out atrocities committed against Christians without mentioning the Muslim suffering that preceded it? Human Rights should be universal, otherwise it's just a Christian opinion of what they are. Respect and understanding will only happen with an unbiased approach. Armenian Genocide argument is not getting anywhere with modern Turks because of its obvious Christian bias. It would be wise to talk about the background leading into it and the role of the Christian West, including the Zionists bent on creating a state of Israel. What does the discovery of oil and the encouraging the idea of ethnically pure nation states on Ottoman lands have anything to do with each other? Why was a Zionist Morgenthau sent as US ambassador to the Ottoman Empire? Turkey's critiques today need to do as much soul searching as they want the Turks to do. Or else, I am afraid, these open wounds shall never heal as long as the the patient's selective memory loss is left untreated.

Metin said...

Mitat: Great Comment!

Phantom said...

Metin,

Discussion fine. As for debate, what shall we debate? What to call it is no longer an issue for debate, but a long settled conclusion. Sure, Turks and Armenians should talk, but as you can see from the blogosphere, Turks are not ready to talk about this yet. They're still in deep denial of the fundamentals.

Metin said...

Phantom: We shall debate whether or not therapy is necessary, or even justified and helpful, in these circumstances of either a denial, or a reluctance to forgive and not forget.

Anonymous said...

I thought you were all Hrant Dinks? I thought you are all Amenians?

What gives?

Metin said...

Which is worse Hellenic,

Being a pedophile or being gay?

I remember reading about the good old Greek days . . . back when they had a civilization . . . boys gone wild?

Hellenic Nationalist said...

My earlier comment was deleted, as things are in Turkey, called censorship.

Anbyway to repeat , I am not making value judgements weher its better to be a pedophile or a gay man, Mustafa Kemal was both.

The lie in is , how can he be a "father" ?